Ron Paul Supporters Say St. Charles County Caucus Organizers Flouted Rules
Republican Committee organizers say they tried to be fair to all caucus participants by trying to see that delegates were apportioned to candidates according to participant numbers.
During Ron Paul’s March 10 visit to Lindenwood University, Brent Stafford got up and urged Paul supporters to attend the caucus and “make national news.”
And they did.
“Just not in the way we wanted to,” Stafford said Sunday.
The St. Charles County Republican Caucus at Francis Howell North was shut down Saturday with no business conducted. Stafford and another caucus attender were arrested by St. Peters Police for trespassing after the caucus.
Now, the “St. Patrick’s Day Massacre” has two sides of the county's GOP pointing fingers at the other.
Stafford said that before the meeting, Ron Paul and Mitt Romney supporters had decided to support him (Stafford) for chairman.
Pre-Caucus Planning
“We talked to them and I told them I was intent on running things by the rules, and I hired a parliamentarian (president of the Missouri Association of Parliamentarians) to make sure we followed Roberts Rules of Order,” Stafford said.
Jon Bennett, a St. Charles Central Republican Committee member, said Caucus organizers had gotten wind of the Paul and Romney coalition to gain the chairman position.
“They (Paul supporters) love to say their intent is pure, but their intent was to get as many delegates as they could for their candidate. That’s part of the game,” Bennett said.
Bennett said the fear was that the Paul and Romney supporters would dominate the caucus and split the delegates, disenfranchising Santorum and Gingrich supporters regardless of their numbers at the meeting.
“That’s their battle cry, ‘Go by the rules. Be fair.’ Well, is it fair if the caucus gets a majority vote to crucify the rest of the room?” said Bennett, a Gingrich supporter.
He also said organizers have unfairly been labeled as all being Santorum supporters. Bennett said that Dokes, as chairman, wanted to be fair to all caucus participants.
“The intent was to apportion delegates to candidates according to the percentage of supporters at the caucus,” Bennett said.
So, when caucus participants registered they were polled regarding what candidate they supported, he said.
Dokes said, “We were definitely going to propose a rule for that outcome. I don’t know what the result of the vote would be.”
And then the caucus started.
One Nominated
Stafford said the St. Charles County Caucus said they anticipated some kind of trouble for Ron Paul supporters. It’s happened around the country at other GOP caucuses, he said.
“We discussed various scenarios, and one of them was pretty much what happened, the way they railroaded the nomination the chair, apparently, it’s been reported that was their plan before the caucus was to not accept any nominations but their person to be nominated,” Stafford said.
He had gone out on the floor for a point of order regarding video when Dokes opened nominations.
“So I nominated myself continually. This woman stood in front of me and he called her by name,” Stafford said.
She nominated Matt Ehlen, and got a second. But Dokes ignored Stafford, he said.
“The problem is the rules are clear on nominations from the floor. You do not have to be recognized by the chair to make your nomination and you do not have to have a second,” Stafford said. “He clearly heard me nominating myself and that nomination should have been accepted.”
People around the room started trying to nominate Stafford, and that soon developed into some participates chanting his name.”
Dokes said that he took the first nomination for Ehlen and got an immediate second. He then heard an immediate motion to close nominations.
“Because there was a motion to close the nominations, I had a duty to vacate that motion before moving onto anything else,” Dokes said. “I figured it would be voted down.”
However, those wishing to nominate Stafford became angry and starting chanting, “Brent Stafford.”
“When we were taking the voice vote on closing nominations, people were out there yelling,” Dokes said. “They didn’t participate in the vote because they were screaming. Is it my fault they didn’t vote because they were out of order?”
He said there were more ‘ayes’ than ‘nays,’ so he closed nominations and took a vote on making Ehlen the caucus chairman with the same outcome.
Dokes said. “I could have ignored procedure and voted again, but that wouldn’t be following procedure.”
Stafford said most people in the room weren’t aware of what Dokes was doing at that point. However, he said there was immediate call to count the vote, but they were ignored.
“That cannot be ignored. It must be acted on,” Stafford said.
Did the process Dokes followed circumvent a fair nomination process?
Bennett said, “That’s probably a fair assessment.”
“This is an ugly process and it’s the nature of the beast,” said Bennett a former state representative. “Procedural maneuvers are done all the time. We claimed (Democrat and former Missouri Speaker of the House) Bob Griffin was deaf one ear because he never heard a motion from our side of the room.”
Bennett said he doesn't like caucuses for those reasons.
An Angry Crowd
But the results angered the crowd.
“Once he refused to count the votes for chairman, no one in the room was willing to recognize him (Ehlen) as the duly elected chair,” Stafford said.
Some people spilled onto the floor.
Ehlen warned the crowd: “The police are threatening to shut us down."
Dokes said there had been talks with police about controlling the meeting and possibly shutting it down if it got out of hand. As the crowd refused to listen to Ehlen, a police officer walked over to Dokes and suggested closing the meeting.
"He also left it to my judgment," Dokes said. "(Ehlen) was looking for a motion. I moved to adjourn and it was seconded by (Central Committee member) Bryan Spencer. At that point, there was no order at all."
Ehlen called for a vote and closed the meeting.
Stafford said that was another in a series of procedural errors.
“The meeting was adjourned improperly,” Stafford said. “He needed a two-thirds vote to adjourn the meeting.”
For more on Saturday’s Caucus, check back with Patch later today.
Mindy Maucelli
7:35 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
What happened should never have happened to those voters! The GOP and the police who did their bullying and intimidating were IN THE WRONG, not the ones who obviously KNEW the rules and wanted to play fair. 1st, those officers took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and they FAILED MISERABLY. Not sure if it's because they really don't know what the Constitution reads, or they chose to ignore it. The ones who SHOULD HAVE BEEN CUFFED and TAKEN TO the detention center for a citation are the ones who chose to ignore the voters..(ya know, the ones who pay taxes so you bully-thug ciops have a job) yeah, those guys... What happened was a disgrace and it was OBVIOUSLY done so because they KNEW they were going to lose all the delegates to other candidates (ones not of their choice) That was a HUGE crowd, and I am SO PROUD OF ALL OF YOU! I wish Clay County would have had a crowd that size. They tried to bully us, but were not able to do so. We stood our groud too. That caucus should have continued with the people who were still there. THAT is how it works. I saw that you guys started to have one but didn't see if you ever finished it, as you should have and TAKEN EVERY DELEGATE to be taken.
Alex E. Cahn
9:05 pm on Sunday, March 25, 2012
The Republican party has gotten used to being able to do pretty much whatever it wants, like insulting others (women, minorities, etc.) and ignoring international agreements such as those concerning the treatment of prisoners. They stand up to "protect" huge tax breaks for the very rich, while average people pick up the tab for the banking bailout that was signed into law by Bush.
So, why would candidates expect fair treatment, other maybe fair treatment for the "Etch-A-Sketch" frontrunner and flip-flop king Mitt Romney?
The GOP has also tried to portray itself as the part with high morals, but then many have been caught in sex scandals and quite a few prominent leaders are on their third or fourth wife, with a mistress or two on the side. What a crock!
Mike DuBois
8:00 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
I was there to vote for my candidate, I didn't yell, scream, stomp or chant; however, in the light of how the meeting was conducted, perhaps it was justified . Obviously, Dokes is fabricating this story (regarding the closing of nominations) to deflect his responsibility for this debacle. I would rather the caucus be held and my candidate lose, than not be able to vote. Through Doke's actions an entire county of voters were disenfranchised, we not only lost our right to elect our delegates, the Republican Party lost hundreds of young Republican supporters. I surely wouldn't elect Dokes to be my representative.
JohnMikal
10:58 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
The perpetrators of this miscarriage, Dokes, Spencer, and Ehlen, are all running for public office in Missouri. Start gathering your support now to make sure they don't get elected.
Tiffany
8:27 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
I was there. It was Romney & Paul supporters together not just crazy Ron Paul supporters. So, that scapegoat of ‘it was the Ron Paul crazy people’ doesn’t apply. There was no verbal aggression; just people trying to be heard. All were following Robert's Rules of Order & were being completely ignored by the person who was the "temporary chair". All were in their seats (except the party leaders for Romney & Paul who were standing on the floor). It was the most un-democratic, un-American thing I have ever witnessed & was the first time I was scared as an American citizen in America. Here's a video. In it, the self-made tyrant says he is calling for a motion to adjourn the caucus. He then asks for a second and gets his cohort's second. Then he asks for I's to approve it and the whole gym (2000 or so people) erupt in Nooo's!!! and he asks for people who oppose to say Nay and everyone again keeps responding in No's or Nay's. Then, he so boldly & unbelievable says, "The I's have it", which means that there were a majority of "I's" answering. You be the judge & see why people got loud, BUT NEVER “verbally aggressive” or “violent”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzWAtWHzSYE Then, people were arrested for trying to organize a caucus to be held OUTSIDE and on different property because the one inside was conducted illegally and not according to rules. What happened? Arrested for NOTHING. We were allowed on those grounds until 1:00 pm. All this occurred around 12:30.
David Nelson
9:25 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
This is the 3rd version and of course another complete fabrication created by Eugene Dokes and his buddies. which now appear to Include the Bennets. Probably the only family in the world to have 3 family members on one republican committee. The gall of these people to continue to lie when there are tons of videos showing what really happened. I'm hoping one of these days these so-called reporters will actually watch a video and see for themselves what happened. Here's a link to just one of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovPPePrwg0&feature=channel
JohnMikal
10:54 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
The article quoting Dokes is not correct. The first order of business was to ban recording of the meeting. Why? Police were called in to arrest and confiscate video recording equipment before moving on to the fabricated nominations process. Some recording did however take place showing the process (or obvious railroading) that took place. See for additional information and footage.
http://youtu.be/KM5x098jqtA
http://www.dailypaul.com/221455/st-charles-caucus-hijacked-bryces-report
Joe Scott
10:56 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
David - We feature a YouTube video with the article to help show exactly what happened.
jim keaveny
11:44 am on Monday, March 19, 2012
they have no integrity. they were outnumbered by paul supporters . that's obvious.
they were going to loose . paul should have won. he's got the support.
america wants paul.
Pabu Kympa
12:41 pm on Monday, March 19, 2012
Eugene Dorkes' childish insistence on no transparency (no cameras) and then announcing Matt Ehlen as the caucus chair were the fascist tactics that got the crowd agitated. Then they closed the caucus than admit total defeat of their wishes and called the cops in to really make sure it stays closed - even removing Brent Stafford when he tried to re-start the caucus in the parking lot! Watch out for some first amendment lawsuits springing forth against the SYSTEM.
The people are rebelling against the system and they will eventually overcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sKbpR24ASM
Mindy Maucelli
9:21 pm on Wednesday, March 21, 2012
A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT naming EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL THERE is in order against the Republican GOP. I suggest you guy organize and get that started, you DO have a case against them. If everyone there got together and signed a petition and presented it to an attorney who handles this sort of thing, you will come out ahead. DO IT! Every American who has witnessed this sort of thing across the country needs to do this. The establishment is corrupt! RON PAUL 2012 ALL THE WAY BABY! NO RON PAUL, NO VOTE for the GOP!
Marcello
10:04 pm on Monday, March 19, 2012
There was not supposed to be a straw vote conducted at the beginning of the caucus. The GOP establishment conducted a straw vote anyway and quickly figured out they did not have enough support to keep control of the caucus. That is when they decided to throw the rules out the window so the whole thing would be invalidated.
Mindy Maucelli
9:27 pm on Wednesday, March 21, 2012
Because they KNOW that the REVOLUTION LIVES!!! (ps.. I live in Kansas City and we experienced a very similar situation!) Ron Paul is SNATCHING UP ALL THE DELEGATES! The voters got smart this election and are in very strong support of the candidate of their choice.. The GOP is losing to the UNELECTABLE one which they have gone to great lengths to hide. American isn't that stupid, you shall see. The voters are beating you guys at your own game, and you don't like it. They came armed this election with full knowledge of "The Roberts Rules of Order" AND VIDEO CAMERA'S.. You were unable to bully us and send us on our way this time. WE ARE BEATING YOU GUYS! They are scared to death that Ron Paul is going to take their healthy wages and send them to the slums to live.. GO RON PAUL PEOPLE! Show up at your caucus, beat them at their game, we will win! and by the way, RON PAUL is ahead, and winning this race. Don't believe the television, the media is in cahoots with the elite.
27Reasons
10:04 pm on Monday, March 19, 2012
There are MANY videos of this on youtube, including the parking lot arrests. This is a complete TRAMPLING of democracy exposed. See "Athens Georgia Fraud" if you'd like to see some more hardcore proof. This is happening everywhere! How long can MSM continue to try and hide this charade?!?!?! It's too obvious for even the most naive....
Mindy Maucelli
9:53 pm on Wednesday, March 21, 2012
Check out Clay County, MO Caucus as well.. They did it to us also, except instead of having a platform for each candidate they pitted Romney/Santorum/Gingrich people against the Ron Paul people because if they hadn't done it that way, we would have won, and the ignorant clay county people got duped. None of them even knew what was on their slate of delegates.. Ron Paul was the ONLY one who had a slate, and all of us knew EXACTLY what we were voting on. The sheeple voted on something they had never even read.. Who got the last laugh?? (RON PAUL PEOPLE DID, that's who). Those Stupid, stupid sheeple..
Mindy Maucelli
9:16 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
http://youtu.be/OuQIMfMVMYg Here is Bryan Spencer admitting (and not knowing he is being video taped) that they were deliberately trying to railroad the Ron Paul supporters. I hope that every person in that county votes for WHOMEVER is running against this guy. He does NOT deserve to hold ANY seat in office. He is a disgrace! As you can see in the video, he is worried about being discredited.. I hate to tell him, he completely discredited himself already. Bryan Spencer, if you read this, I hope you are sleeping well at night.
Joe Mcplumber
10:48 pm on Monday, March 19, 2012
Please stop saying "I" when you mean "Aye". Thank you.
Joe Scott
12:51 am on Tuesday, March 20, 2012
As a former sailor, I thank you Mr. McPlumber.
Jezzusist
11:18 pm on Monday, March 19, 2012
The more they push the more they LOSE, keep fighting THE MORE EVIDANCE WE HAVE THE BETTER DOCUMENT EVERYTHING EVEN THE MOST MINOR DETAIL YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT COULD BE IMPORTANT LATER! IF IT'S NOT DOCUMENTED IT NEVER HAPPENED! OUR FOUNDING FATHER FORESAW THE ISSUES THAT WE THE PEOPLE AND THE FUTURE OF AMERICA WOULD HAVE TO FACE WE WILL OVERCOME WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT
Jim Frain
7:06 pm on Tuesday, March 20, 2012
These comments by these Ron Paul supporters are truly frightening. I must live in a different world than they do. Enough said.
Mindy Maucelli
9:55 pm on Wednesday, March 21, 2012
Yes Jim you must... never never land maybe?.. Do the research for yourself, we have. People like you, scare us.
Mindy Maucelli
9:21 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
As I said before and I will say it again. Jim Frain, do you believe in the constitution of the United States of America, or do you just like wearing shirts that project that you are an American, because HONESTLY, you sure don't act like one! It doesn't matter WHO any person there was there to support. The fact that NO ONE there got to vote is a disgrace, and was just WRONG. Eugene Dokes screwed himself for being elected. People would be NUTS to elect him into a State Rep position, he is a disgrace, and very well known all over the world now as a cheat. As far as Bryan Spencer goes, he is now known as being the same.. Video's don't lie, which is WHY those people had EVERY RIGHT to video tape that meeting. http://youtu.be/OuQIMfMVMYg
Mindy Maucelli
9:13 pm on Saturday, March 24, 2012
This is truly frightening http://youtu.be/OuQIMfMVMYg that a man running for STATE REPRESENTATIVE is caught on hidden camera (Bryan Spencer) basically admitting that they were trying to railroad the Ron Paul Supporters. You people are a disgrace! You don't even deserve to be considered Americans!